It seems that Vornado would gladly build it on its sites east of 7th between 32nd and 34th. They own the bulk of those parcels. What they don’t own are largely junky little two story buildings on 34th that would not be expensive to acquire. It seems that they don’t need Empire Realty’s building or the one on the corner of 6th to fit a new MSG.
If the city passes up on this chance and gives MSG a permanent license, Penn’s fate as the Eighth Circle of Hell will be sealed.
By contrast, a new Penn and MSG will ignite development here.
**P.S.: For the babies on this forum, I’m well aware that I’ve said this before. There’s no need to report me to the “mods” or send texts to other members complaining about me.
In my 40 year career, I have never encountered such petulant nonsense. It’s really absurd.**
Why would Vornado give up its office tower sites for a new arena? That makes no sense. Vornado is an office developer. They’ve spent the last 30-40 years cobbling together Penn District assemblages. The sites are worth billions. I’d much rather that MSG stay in its current location than replace one of the future Empire District towers. It doesn’t make sense, in that if MSG moved, the current MSG site would be developed with towers. So you would have more or less the same conditions as current Penn. There will never be a surface reconstruction of the pre-MSG Penn.
It also seems a gigantic waste of resources by fixing the MSG blight by moving it across the street. You still have the blight squatting above the Penn complex.
Vornado has mentioned this. 15 Penn won’t rise for a long time. They can start gentrifying the area with a new Penn and a new arena, and maybe a new casino hotel on one of their many sites in the area.
P.S.: For the babies on this forum, I’m well aware that I’ve said this before. There’s no need to report me to the “mods” or send texts to other members complaining about me.
In my 40 year career, I have never encountered such petulant nonsense. It’s really absurd.
I agree that IF MSG moved anywhere, the current site above PENN would definitely be redeveloped with towers. It wouldn’t be the same situation as now, where is PENN is buried under the weight of a 1,000 ton Dolan. There would be more access, more light, more greenspace required in any tower development here. But that’s a pretty big IF. even this current proposal feels like a big IF.
I’m taking a short lunch break (I’m not active on the forums anymore during the day time on weekdays), and while I dont want to go off topic what is your in bold statement refering too @robertwalpole? I’ve seen it everywhere the past few days and I’m not quite sure (or aware) that your repetitive statements are being flagged/deleted so is it really necessary to be name calling when nothing is going on? Your repetitive comments are still typically on topic to the discussions (which is mainly here and the MSG thread) and even though they are repetitive, there’s no reason they would be being deleted/removed, so I dont understand the point of adding that statement to your posts?
Yes, given present market uncertainty, 15 Penn probably won’t rise anytime soon. But, in any case, a very large office tower will eventually rise, and a very large office tower is a much better use of land than another MSG.
And I thought the whole problem with MSG was that it restricts Penn Station possibilities. If you move it across the street, you’re still restricting Penn Station’s possibilities. Anything above the Penn complex has an impact on the potential below.
Guys and gals theres a difference between an off topic post and a post in which its relevant to the topic but some don’t agree with it.
For example, someone making the comment that 15 Penn won’t rise anytime soon because he/she feels the risk is high and the market is not there is not off topic. Or someone saying that “X” design is utter trash, its an opinion, a comment but still relevant.
These flags are reviewed and some are restored. Some are deleted because its very well off topic. But disagreeing with someone on something is not off topic (unless foul language is used or name calling).
Also, we can have some humor here as well…
A lot of the flags I review tend to be disagreements. There is a difference.
Agreed, I feel like moving it east would be making a similar mistake twice, not to mention it would wipeout the Gimbels skybridge which I’m very much a proponent of saving.
I’m going to sound like a broken record here but the latest schematic that we have seen seems to be the most realistic/feasible option.
I don’t think that a new MSG would require the old Gimbel’s/A&S building. Anyway, that site eventually will come down. Vornado is intent on rebuilding everything that it owns in that area.
Lastly, the sole point of moving it east (or anywhere else) is to free Penn below.
Wanting MSG to move is all well and good, until it comes time for someone the pony up the $4 billion (or whatever ridiculous sum it comes to) to actually build the new one. Nobody likes Dolan, but in what world is he going to volunteer to pay for a new arena when he already owns one on what is probably the single best location to own an arena. I don’t think clearing MSG from the site to improve Penn Station is worth the state paying out billions to Dolan to relocate. Even if they end the tax benefits MSG is getting, I don’t see how that would be enough to get him to move and build a new arena.
I’m sure people felt the Highline was unrealistic at one point too. Penn and the surrounding area is AWFUL and needs big ideas and an even bigger budget. I
f its done right and BILLIONS in economic activity get invested in the area, I guarantee you people will say “money well spent.”
When you half ass it, it sucks. When you dream big, that ambition is contagious and other people catch it. If you find the will the money will appear.
The High Line cost was not remotely comparable to what a new MSG in the middle of Manhattan will cost. I’m not saying it’s not feasible - just that I can’t imagine a politically palatable way for the governor to essentially give James Dolan billions of dollars to build a new arena for himself. I’d love for MSG to be moved, but I think it’s wishful thinking to keep making plans for a Penn Station with no MSG on top.
I know they aren’t the same but the High Line is proof that when you do something inspiring it can catch fire. If you create buzz and get people excited good things tend to follow.
“Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men’s blood and probably will not themselves be realized. Make big plans, aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will never die, but long after we are gone will be a living thing, asserting itself with ever growing insistency. - D. Burnham
The current MSG has the best location there is , because it is directly above Penn. What MSG really needs is a complete renovation of the facade and a possible roof garden.
Again, that is not a point for MSG. Being above Penn Station is probably the best location for almost anything. (Including a headhouse for Penn) That’s not a argument in favor of keeping it here.
It’s not that other people favor keeping MSG where it is…it’s that how are you going to convince the current owner to give up the prime spot he already has?