Does someone own the air rights over MSG?
Not sure why nobody has proposed a skyscraper over MSG. I feel like you could literally just build a skyscraper where a beautiful, massive lobby would essentially be the train station, MSG could be fit above that, then sell the rest of the space above that to fund the entire thing. It could be a super tall and the design could be spectacular.
I’m not quite sure to who owns the air rights, but the idea probably hasn’t been brought up because it’s not that feasible of an idea. It would only make sense to build commercial towers around the existing MSG (if that is what you’re implying) but there is not enough room to make their floor plates economical enough in size and all the below grade infrastructure involving Penn Station would make that an absurdly complex and costly undertaking. MSG’s own structure also cannot support anything else than itself so a new structure could not use the same structure as the arena which complicates things further. Zoning would further complicate the ability to do any of this.
Yeah… but in my idea I used magic 
People love to speculate about MSG.
Building a new arena on the Hotel Penn site (and on Vornado’s sites between 33rd and 34th) and building a new Penn Station would ignite this area’s gentrification. It would also add impetus to awarding Vornado the gambling license. They could build a hotel and casino on the A&S site or on their parcel on the west side of 7th.
All of this will increase the desirability of this area and will precipitate demand for future office towers.
This also benefits the Dolans. Let’s face it: even after a $1b renovation, MSG is a decrepit dump. It’s also my understanding that due to the station below, MSG’s loading docks are located above street level which imposes extra costs and complications for hosting events.
As far as the new Penn goes, Chakrabarti’s recycling proposal would not only be cost effective, but it would yield a gorgeous station that New Yorkers deserve.
This investment would yield prodigious returns.
The City should renew MSG’s permit for five years. That’s enough time to build an arena.
The proposal by Woods Bagot that ALC linked is still the best proposal of any proposal that has been suggested or proposed. The concept to just completely hollow out the structure of the current MSG as a whole is kind of nonchalantly absurd. The space is extremely way too big to just be left like that.
@robertwalpole Do you mind me asking why the loading docks being on street level creates the impediments you mentioned? I’m not familiar with that/didn’t know that was a problem. 
Also just in a general sense, if MSG were to move to the east as suggested in the articles and the CB5 meeting, I don’t believe 5 years would be enough, because those buildings that Vornado does not own would need to be purchased (barring if Vornado would even want to partner up) and then they too would need to be demolished.
So they can extend the OP for 7 or 10 years. I believe that Vornado owns all but one building in the aerial image I posted the other day.
As far as the loading dock issue goes, my neighbor is an engineer and a consultant with thirty years of experience. He has done work in recent years on MSG, and he told me that.
The Rangers and Knicks deserve arenas like the Islanders and Nets have. I go to MSG a lot. It is a pit.
I believe (if the maps are still accurate) that Vornado doesnt own 4 of the buildings where Site 6 is supposed to be. But outside of that area, they only own 1 other building on the block, but they would need a lot more room to be able to build a new MSG. 
That’s interesting, I didnt think it would’ve caused any problems because the arena is still way above where the loading docks are. I still don’t necessarily understand how that makes it more expensive though to load/unload stuff.
I too agree that the teams that play at MSG deserve a better venue, but I still feel like it can be redeveloped into a better arena, like in the Woods Bagot proposal and be able to help with Penn Station “problems”.
The question is whether the politicians have the spine to call Dolan’s bluff and revoke all privileges for MSG. Tear that eyesore down.
He really doesn’t have any leg to stand on as if he tried to move the franchise to another city he would substantially reduce its value. My vote is to force him to buy the land elsewhere and build a new MSG without any public assistance.
I am biased though as decades of failure thrust me into being a Nets fan and I think his use of facial recognition to persecute his perceived opponents is positively dystopian.
Here on the left is one of Midtown’s few self-park garages (the only other ones I can think of are at the Port Authority Bus Terminal and at Manhattan Plaza on W 42nd Street). Pretty much all other garages require you to leave your keys with a valet. This self-park garage would be a terrible thing to lose.
its really not all that crappy of an arena. the outside paneling is absolutely horrid, but the inside, for an arena inside a major city on an island, isnt bad.
The outside indeed looks terrible, but the inside is utterly sub-par compared to new state of the art arenas like UBS. MSG is crap now. How bad will it be in twenty or thirty years?
This is not just a major city in an island, this is New York city.
https://pau.studio/what/a-miracle-on-34th-street/
I’d be more than happy for this low rise garbage to be replaced by a new MSG.
Or on the West Yards
Holy Cr*p! This is great!
Move MSG and raze the eyesores in one fell swoop!
This would wipe out the Gimbels walkway, my preference would be for it to stay. Also who is going to pony up 8B to buy all the properties, demolish and build this? Out of all the “plans” floating around I think the Woods Bagot is the most feasible/realistic scenario.
The city holds all of the cards with the operating permit. MSG has no value when it expires. The Dolans obviously own the buildings and the land; however, when the operating permit expires, MSG cannot host the Knicks, the Rangers, concerts, etc. Thus, the Dolans can be forced to move.
Everyone should watch this video.
Bold Visions for a New Penn Station: Seminar at Cooper Union, January 26, 2023 - YouTube
The problem I see with plans to rebuild the original Penn Station is that none seem to take into account 2 Penn Plaza which is currently undergoing a multi-million dollar renovation. There is no way that it will be demolished to make room for these concepts so all these plans for rebuilding Penn would only result in 2/3 of the headhouse being built, specifically the portions facing Moynihan.
