Well I was more referring to the towers themselves with that lol but yeah if TKD wants to that would be great as well
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Yeah, I was in agreement with you about the towers as well but it seems that it was mostly focused on him making more of these lol. But yeah if he wants to do that would be cool as well.
Macyâs is on the diagonal across the street from Penn LIRR entrance.
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The buildings would help pay for the renovation of the dreary underground station, the reason officials have said they are seeking the additions to the skyline. But the plan is moving forward amid severe uncertainty gripping the office market: Many companies are trying to reduce their real estate footprint as workers continue to clock in from home.
A clue to whether the project succeeds may lie two blocks to the west, in the Hudson Yards neighborhood. Development there has not met expectations three years after a slate of new construction â including office towers, retail and residences â opened with grand ambitions. Major office tenants there are downsizing amid the stubborn popularity of remote work, and a quarter of the ultraluxury condos remain unsold. The New York City economy has changed drastically since government officials and developers first touted plans for the Hudson Yards area over a decade ago, and it has been transformed even more during the pandemic. Major corporations that moved to the neighborhood, including WarnerMedia, JPMorgan Chase and IHS Markit, are now trying to unload floors of unused office space. Still, with the Penn Station project, Ms. Hochul is doubling down on a legacy-defining bet that white-collar workers will eventually return to Midtown, and that firms will be hungry as ever for office space.
But critics warn that the development could become another Hudson Yards, a luxury neighborhood aided by tax breaks that largely benefited a single developer and unwisely depended on offices full of workers and an endless supply of wealthy buyers for high-rise condos. New York may never be the same city it was before the pandemic, those critics caution. Nearly 37 percent of all office space in the Hudson Yards neighborhood is available for lease, the highest rate in Midtown, according to the real estate firm Avison Young, a figure recently driven up by the opening of new commercial buildings and companies trying to find other tenants to take over their floors. More than half of all office construction in Manhattan, about seven million square feet, is under development there. âTenants move from building to building, and if there is insufficient growth due to the remote-work phenomenon, which is here to stay, there will be landlords who are left with empty offices,â said Ruth Colp-Haber, a commercial real estate broker.
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I understand the part where people are WFH still and that has caused a lull in office space capacity
and footprint percentages.
But Iâm questioned by the HY not meeting expectations or that its not filling part considering all the commercial towers are filling quickly and we see articles and news of companies moving there on a weekly basis it seems. Itâs not right to use the Hudson Yards âneighborhoodâ as the measurement to go off of because Hudson Yards (proper) and Manhattan West are doing very well.
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I agree. The HY were a massive success.
Further, it is unequivocal that potent demand exists for brand new space.
I donât agree with all the assertions in that article, but itâs a good rundown of the very real risks associated with this project. I like skyscrapers and hate Penn Station like everybody else here, but Iâm definitely more skeptical than most about this project due to the economic impacts of the pandemic/WFH.
Now, itâs conceivable that new towers here will be a success as tenants gravitate toward brand-new amenity-filled office space and vacate older, outdated commercial properties that are not attractive to younger WFH-oriented employees.
However, itâs also entirely possible that the post-WFH market for commercial office space will be so bad (as corporations abandon physical offices entirely) that the developers wonât be able to fill the towers and the state/taxpayers are left holding the bag for the cost of the Penn improvements.
We simply donât know at this point. Perhaps in another year workers will be pouring back into Midtown. Or perhaps companies will really lean into WFH and NYC will face the worst economic disaster in its history as its office market collapses. The point is, this project is a gamble at this point in time.
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I agree with your assessment more than the articleâs.
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Megatalls or Supertalls taller as One Woeld Trade Center
The guy who wrote this article has no idea what heâs talking about.
The site 7 heâs talking about that he calculated to reach about â1,900 ftâ is Penn 15. A project we know wonât even reach 1,300 ft .
As much as I would love for that to be the case, itâs not.
GreatâŚnow this has me wanting a 1,900 ft building in NYC.
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Reading that article hurt my head, you canât measure a visual of that projection (especially the one he was using) accurately because it is not of the type that would show true measurements in relation to itâs angle of projection. I dont even get those measurements when doing the same thing.
Like you mentioned, considering he was literally 700â off for the height of PENN 15, I donât understand how he got a shorter height for Site 2Bâs tower since that is proposed to be the tallest tower and âisâ the tallest tower on the graphic he was using to âmeasureâ.
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Could 2A2B become a megatall?
Maybe, but so could a lot of sites with a large enough spire. As of right now you can probably just assume that one wonât happen
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As commercial office buildings, no, the chance is basically none because floor plate area will be prioritized over height resulting from smaller floors.
Iâd also appreciate it if the 2 individual towers (even though on the same site) were not lumped together because one is much bigger than the other.
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What is the maximum height?
Yeah that second article from the Times is ridiculous, misleading anti-height fearmongering. I thought the first one made some good points about potential pitfalls with this development, but it seems the Times just couldnât resist throwing some lizard-brained hysteria about skyscrapers in Manhattan being too tall (lmao) into the mix. Disappointing.
This Haag guy is a dishonest anti-development NIMBY, Iâve seen his byline on other dubious Times articles about real estate.
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@DeSelby, I canât with the âlizard-brained hysteriaâ, lol. I actually didnât see it/think it was about anti-height fearmongering (which if it is well what can you do). I really honestly thought it was just complete misinformation on his part and then projecting his own incorrect interpretations.
@007 I donât know how many times across how many threads Iâve mentioned this, and it really goes for any development unless otherwise specified, there are no height restrictions in NYC.
This little drawings just goes to show the length that, even though these are just the representative massing forms, the extreme height difference that Towers A and B on Site 2 would have to undergo to reach megatall status, nearly 700â of difference for Tower B and over 900â for Tower A. For the mean time until a design is actually released by a developer (âwhenâ a developer takes it up) the megatall interest for that site should be dropped.
Take mcartâs words and memorize them,
Perhaps I was too quick to assume malicious intent, but there are many vocal, wealthy, well-connected older Manhattanites who absolutely hate tall buildings. They are NYT readers and I really do think the paper was trying to play up their fears with that article. Remember the rich NIMBYs going nuts over the Billionairesâ Row shadows that would kill all the plants in Central Park and wanted to institute a public review of any building over 600 ft? That NYT article about the scary Penn supertalls will be like catnip to those types. More skyscrapers to complain about!
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