Taking without paying would violate the Fifth Amendment to the federal constitution.
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I think he was suggesting that $500m is way above the FMV, and, therefore, if MSG wonât sell for below that exorbitant price, then the city/state should acquire it via eminent domain and pay whatever the FMV is.
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Iâm not sure the US constitution rules out eminent domain as an option. As Robert notes, theyâd have to settle at a fair market value as part of the process. That, plus the cost of a protracted legal fight would still be expensive. My best guess is that all parties might agree itâs cheaper and cleaner to come up with a sale price up front rather than go through an acrimonious process.
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I think that Womanoâs comment was based on the assumption that you implied taking it without paying anything.
I agree about the delays and legal costs for eminent domain. Also, the $500m might include other things like acquisition of the taxi alley and MSGâs share of recladding its portion of the structure.
Eminent domain would still mean paying a fair price for it; the government canât just take (steal) things, even if itâs for the public good.
But yes, if they simply refuse to sell, eminent domain should absolutely be used to force it. This is exactly the kind of situation eminent domain is for, and todayâs politicians are far too reluctant to use it.
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The more images I see, the more I like this proposal. It exudes elegance and class, and reminds me a bit of the New Formalism of the Lincoln Center. It doesnât need to be modern or flashy. Clearly the architects have put a lot of thought into it.
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At a minimum, the city should acquire this garbage by ED and make a park here. Perhaps it could entice Vornado by letting them transfer all air rights on this site to its other sites in the area.
I think it would be approximately half the size of Bryant Park.
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This proposal from ASTM is a home run! The design feels so âNew Yorkâ it should look like itâs always been here once itâs completed.
This will also raise the bar for the new developments to come in this neighborhood.
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I think this entire area is too low. Thats why I donât like the concept of MSG staying. Itâs the very reason people donât like Penn. These renderings are very nice lipstick, but public spaces need lofty ceilings. Thats been proven over and over again.
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Well you canât backtrack on your reasoning, because you first said MSG needed to be demolished and rebuilt higher because it was built too low of which I said that wouldnât fix anything, you either donât want it or want it rebuilt exactly the same (because the loading dock would not be built higher because it has to be built at street level as I already explained), there are no other options.
I understand what youâre saying in general, but 24â is not low by any means considering the new LIRR concourseâs ceiling is 18â now from being literally 6â 8" in some areas. People donât not like Penn explicitly because of MSG, that connection doesnât make sense, they donât like it because the state it is in and how it exists. If the reason people didnât like Penn Station was because MSG then ASTM wouldnât even be designing anything if nothing was salvageable or even possible to that point and their design clearly shows that the arena can still coexist with the Station below.
Do you also want 2 PENN to be demolished because it was built âtoo lowâ?
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Iâm not backtracking, Iâve always said that MSG sits too low and needs to be torn down.
LIRR is different because itâs an old building that was never built as a train hub in the first place. Plus itâs a beautiful building and nobody wants to tear down a beautiful building like that anymore so we make it work (simply for curb appeal).
LaGuardia is the best comparison to this project. The benefit between piecemeal design and tearing down post war garbage and building brand new is clear as day.
And yes, if I had the power I would raise that entire area to the ground and start brand new. Its horrendous.
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I only say backtracking because you keep flipflopping between saying remove MSG permanently and demolishing it and rebuilding it higher, a building canât be built âtoo lowâ when it is built at street level.
As to the LIRR concourse, Iâm not sure what old building youâre referring to other than the fact that what Iâm referring to is not a building at all.
How is LGA even comparable to this project, it doesnât have anything on top of it and never did that prevented it from being rebuilt fully in the first place. The fact that you donât think anything in the ASTM proposal is not brand new also doesnât make sense and neither is it piecemeal as that would imply that it is not planned to be built in an orderly manner or that it is just a temporary build.
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LGA had piecemeal ideas for a long time just like MSG. The best option is to tear it down and build for the future. Not weirdly try to build around stuff that entirely outdated. Modern transit hubs need to be light filled, open and have very high ceilings for circulation. Keeping MSG where itâs at is an entirely piecemeal approach. Putting a stadium over one of the biggest transit hubs in the world is one of the wort decisions in the history of urban planning and it needs to be remedied.
I like the exterior stone, but MSG needs to go. It just does. If they can find a way to make the loading dock higher then maybe it can stay. But like you said, thats not possible. So it need to go.
I thought by LIRR you were talking about Moynihan.
Moynihan is Amtrak only.
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Of course, the âwaterfallâ feature would be the first on the chopping block as soon as the developer wins and the accountants have their way with it
bait and switch is the rule, not the exception in this city
I donât really agree with that.
Great, there you go,
that waterfall feature was just to generate some hype
now weâre back to reality and it is but a bunch of bushes and hedges 
or they can just not renew the license, make MSG move and save us all 500M 
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Itâs like this developer decided to be the cleverest of them all and hired a professional makeup artist to fix up this pig, while all the others were just trying to apply lipstick