There is merit in what you say as well. Maybe we really need some data on where the users of LGA come from to board flights and go to after they land. That might help in making the best choice since building two systems is surely out of the question. Thanks again for your rational, non-NIMBY oriented, response. These are serious infrastructure issues and I guess my other problem is that Cuompo may simply have decided what he wanted and pushed it through without carefully studying alternatives. He has that streak in himāsorta my way the highway.
1 Like
Nimbyism killed the N/R extension idea, which is the original and most logical connection plan to LGA. Thereās a few blocks of small scale residential Astoria that a new elevated track would have to go through before hitting the waterfront.
Why is it not possible to make a connection from the Astoria Blvd. station above the Grand Central Parkway? Probably too expensive and disruptive. The Cuomo proposal isnāt too bad all things considered.
Why canāt New York City just build elevated subway? Itās much cheaper!
The short answer is NIMBYism but the longer complicated one is that when an elevated train is proposed, those who oppose them imagine the older EL design being built as opposed to the new quieter designs that are used around the world and even on the AirTrain.
1 Like
two steps forward, two steps back.
transit is a necessity and trying to extend the subway from astoria will NEVER happen. its an actual neighborhood with people living it. Getting from Willets to LGA is not a big deal and is the least impactful option
3 Likes
Just build the stupid train ā subway or light rail or air train, whatever ā just build it!
2 Likes
You donāt have to build it through a neighborhood. Use the Grand Central Parkway right of way.
1 Like
Thatās exactly what theyāre doing. The LGA Airtrain is being built on the GCP right of way to subway/LIRR, just like the JFK Airtrain was built along the Van Wyck right of way to subway/LIRR.
This lessens NIMBY pushback, reduces cost, and involves minimal land acquisition.
1 Like
to get from ditmars to the GCP would go through a good part of astoria.
the only non intrusive plan is the one going from willets
2 Likes
My understanding of the GCP option is that the train would turn off at Astoria Boulevard not Ditmars and that is how I believe it has been presented.
Okay, as a non-New Yorker, I really need someone to explain this to me. How would building an elevated train on top of the Grand Central Parkway ROW be any more disruptive than whatās already there? Isnāt GCP in Astoria basically a superhighway?
That would be Grand, but it would cut service to Ditmars Blvd, the busiest station along the N / W in Queens. Another consideration is that branches raise the potential for service disruptions since for every branch there is an extra point where traffic merges, and the Broadway trains already form the most interlined set of services on the subway.
The best option would be to run it (on a modern, quiet concrete viaduct) on Ditmars, 21st, or 20th Avenue (in descending order of preference) and then tunnel the minimum necessary to clear the airportās runway. Serve thousands of extra people in the area, allow for some upzoning along the new ROW, minimum property taking (corner lot at 31st Street and the above mentioned avenues), and still provide a one-seat ride to LGA. It would definitely take a lot of political courage to accept that proposal!
1 Like
Astoria Blvd and the GCT intersect. Using that subway stop avoids tearing up a neighborhood while providing access to areas between Astoria and LGA as well as the airport. It obviously is a tradeoff with the busy stop at Astoria and it also makes access from Long Island more inconvenient than the present plan. But I wonder if anyone ever has done a study of the various populations that use LGA. If more arrive from east of the airport the present plan may be better. If more arrive from the west then the subway/GCT plan would be better. But the best of all is unattainableāa subway or LIRR line from Astoria Blvd east to Willets. I still suspect that the Cuomo led studies did not carefully look at alternatives that the soon to be ex-governor wasnāt interested in.
2 Likes
From Astoria Blvd station over GCP would be my route of choice. Iām guessing it was never seriously considered because it would take away lanes from the parkway. Too much political damage from commuters.
Thereās no LIRR access in Astoria. And the N line has worse capacity issues than the 7. And thereās no parking. And the N doesnāt go to Grand Central or Penn (the point is to build regional connections to the big three airports). Iām also highly skeptical thereās room for a giant transfer hub at Astoria Blvd, given the tight space, unless you want to start demolishing neighboring blocks.
I feel most of these comments are still contextualizing airport access as Manhattan airport access, and not regional airport access. They want regional connections, using dedicated trains, to terminal hubs. And they want connections for all airport users, employees included. Even the JFK Airtrain was designed so that one day you could take a direct train from Penn or Grand Central right to your terminal. The upgraded Newark Airtrain will have the same long-term functionality. You could never do this on the N train without reducing capacity for regular commuters.
2 Likes
1 Like
LIRR access at Willets Point is to one line that at peak runs once a half hour and that line does not even make a connection at Jamaica (it splits off the mainline after Woodside). If you want true regional connectivity then run it all the way down to Jamaica and not Willets Point.
And as for parking we are not building an AirTrain to the N you are extending it to the airport why would you need to consider parking. If your going to drive all the way to Astoria to take a train your just going to drive all the way to the Airport. Same applies realistically to Willets Point.
It also does little for actual residents of Queens. Who is going to ride the 7 all the way to take an Airtrain. I live in Rego Park and I would still probably take the train to the bus or just uber it because the AirTrain does nothing to improve its connection to the majority of Queens. If you want it to be useful then built it as an extension of the N or build the AirTrain further south to Jamaica or both.
2 Likes
The most central point where people depart for LGA is 59th St/Lex. This study was done many years ago and I doubt if it has changed a great deal.