not knocking it as an option, im knocking it as the only option.
a new airport in a major city demands transit.
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Iâm still not sure what the deal is with this. Iâm always a proponent of expanding rail transit options, but the backlash on this project has been significant (to say the least). If the objections are legitimate, then they deserve to be taken seriously, but Iâm having trouble understanding what EXACTLY the publicâs problem is.
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As I understand it the main objection is that the route goes way out of the way into eastern Queens rather than make a direct shot from Manhattan. Extending the R train to LGA is the most direct route. But one plan to do that ran into stiff opposition in Astoria for the planned elevated route from the northern terminus of the line. A perhaps better route cutting off from the R south of Astoria and running over the Grand Central right of way has, as far as I know, never been considered. In addition, the planned system required a train switch lugging bags and uses the kind of clunker cars used at JFK. I tend to agree that Cuomoâs plan is a quicky fix that is not well thought out.
Thank you Waymond! That was a very clear explanation.
I consider myself a rail-proponent, but if the current proposal is an inefficient design, it only serves to damage the reputation of rail projects in the region. Looks to me like extending the N/R from Astoria seems like the most sensible answer (in terms of direct access anyway).
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The problem is, Queens is very anti mass transit. They also voted down a further eastward expansion on the E line. They like their streets choked with cars.
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the right option is to extend the subway.
the air train option from citi field is the second best, but its better than vehicles. the roads need to be cleared up from vehicle traffic.
New York City should have rail access to each airport. It shouldnât take more than 30 minutes to go from midtown to any airport.
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While extending the N/R line is the best option, itâs also the most expensive and has the most opposition which is why Cuomo wonât even go in that direction.
Itâs a shame a city like NYC doesnât have one-seat rides to its airports.
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The extension of the N/R is more expensive but would probably have the highest ridership of the options presented.
That being said an AirTrain would be better than a no build option (maybe) if it doesnât preclude later expanding the N/R to LaGuardia.
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The N/R is impossible. Was attempted 20 years ago, NIMBYs hated it, would have no linkage to LIRR and would cost like 4x as much. Also the Astoria line has capacity issues. LGA rail link is as much for airport employees as for flyers. Employees need rail access to eastern Queens and LI, visitors need access to Midtown. The Airtrain accomplishes both objectives.
As usual, NIMBYs delaying the inevitable, driving up costs and slowing down any improvement. Also totally myopic, Manhattan-centric worldview, not getting that LGA rail access is a regional initiative.
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Too bad the US is allowing Cuomo to blast this one through the red tape. The AirTran system is out of the way, requires a âlug-your-bagâ transfer, and ignores much better alternatives. It would be so much better to spend a bit more and do it right, maybe by running an N train subway extension along the Grand Central right of way from Astoria. But this AirTran is not a good solution.
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So what happens with the ditmars and Astoria blvd stops if you run the n through the grand central, not to mention that the N would require a much larger track bed than the air train would.
The LGA Airtrain is Exhibit A that nothing positive happens in NYC without NIMBYs whining and complaining. As has been repeatedly explained, apparently to no avail, LGA access has been discussed for 30 years, and there are no better options. You need a link to both subway/LIRR, it has to be an airport system, not an MTA system, or airport fees cannot fund it, and it has to have access for LGA workers (who live east) as well as visitors (who head west). And it pretty much has to use the Grand Central Parkway right-of-way, because anywhere else the NIMBY reaction will be 100x worse and the MTA would take a decade or more in eminent domain proceedings. And running it underground will cost 4x as much.
And why is AOC, an alleged âprogressiveâ, complaining about public transit, fully funded by the feds and airport passengers, taking thousands of cars off the road and improving her districtâs air quality and economy? Answer - she isnât progressive, sheâs basically a Lefty Trump. Her only âaccomplishmentâ is erasing 40k high-paying Amazon jobs from her district, as well as billions in affordable housing and infrastructure funded by Amazon.
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NIMBYism is not a good reason to not attempt to build something. Everything in this city that is being built has NIMBYism including this version of the Airtrain.
Also the connection to the LIRR is overstated here. It connects to the Port Washington line of the LIRR not the mainline, so unless you live off of this line in LI its worthless to you.
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For me this is not NIMBYism. I donât fit in that category. I just think this is the wrong way to create a needed improvement. I appreciate the counter arguments on the merits made in response to my earlier post. But labeling opposition to everything as NIMBYism makes the label meaningless.
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In a perfect world I wouldâve liked to see some other options, but I kind of agree that this was the best option on the table that could realistically get completed without another decade of arguing and not making something happen.
Itâs a solid connection to both subway and commuter rail and Crawdadâs right that tunneling would easily cost 4x as much and face way more opposition/maybe canceling the project all together.
Also, the fact that it goes âthe wrong wayâ seems to be this battle cry, but (from what I can tell) itâs a negligible curve of like 1000ft to the east so it can connect to the existing infrastructure. How much is that really inconveniencing someone? Itâs not going 10 miles in the âwrong direction.â
Also, I think a lot of people flying out of LGA probably originate from LI anyway.
GentriâQuestion. Would there have to be a tunnel if the only major right of way was the GrandCentral Parkway? Seems like that route is a straight shot. Interesting point about the number of LI users. But Manhattan folks use it if possible because itâs convenientâmuch shorter ride than JFK or Newark. It would be interesting to have some data. Thanks.
I see what youâre saying Chused. I neglected to remember that this section of the N train is already elevated so tunneling wouldnât be an issue.
With that in mind, the connection to Astoria Blvd is actually more realistic than I thought.
However, I still think thereâs some merit for the existing plan by creating a direct connection to commuter rail, which makes it a one-seat ride to/from Penn (and in the near future) Grand Central. Also, I still think the whole âwrong wayâ thing is really a non-issue that takes people on a 30 second detour.