Even before Cuomo’s downfall he lacked vision and this may be his final boondoggle. It may work for North Shore Long Islanders coming to LGA, but people in the city would need to go past the AP and then double back on the air train.
Expanding the subway was the better move to make; even though it might have cost twice as much it would’ve added subway service to areas of Queens which are transit deserts now and therefore had a dual function.
The airtrain is Cuomo’s $2B to nowhere where my preference would’ve been for the M train spur among the options below.
expanding the subway would take 15 years and cost 10x the price, if the people of astoria would even allow it.
the airtrain will take 4 years, the costs will be mostly contained due to the design/build/operate procurement and it wont require nearly the hand holding that the subway would because it doesnt go through residential neighborhoods.
its hardly the perfect answer, but its an answer that can actually get done.
I respect your professional experience, but I think there’s some hyperbole in both our posts.
The M train extension would follow a course of about 2-2.5 miles. The 1.5 mile 7 train extension cost a little over $2B/mile and that was in an area of denser development and higher property values. It took about 8 years to build. How can you expect the M extension for example to cost more than ~$5B?
I don’t know where you’re getting 15 years and $20B, but for twice the air train price NYC could’ve gotten a subway stop at an LGA terminal and a spur which would also serve tens of thousands of new commuters in Queens. It could even spur new higher density development along the line, something the air train could never do.
IMHO the air train is far more flawed than you think and will end up being embarrassingly underutilized compared to projections. I’m very skeptical that I would ever consider using it and the economic benefits to Queens from a subway extension far outstrip anything the air train could hope to offer.
Wouldn’t a subway via the Grand Central Parkway right from Astoria Blvd be bothe cheaper and avoid the opposition that an above ground line from Ditmars would engender.
The subway extension isn’t going to happen. Move on. The Astoria stop straddles the GC so the turn would have to begin before the Astoria station in order to use the GC right of way so that would cut two stations from the line in order to make that happen which is an operational mess. We don’t need another A train situation with two different branches of a train line. IMO, the only way a connection between the Astoria station would be possible would be to run a spur of the air train west over the GC and hover an air train station transfer above the Astoria train station. Not to mention, the Port Authority money CANNOT be used for a subway line.
How much opposition to the Ditmars extension is there? It’ll cover maybe 6 blocks of medium to low density housing and single story commercial before hitting the huge ConEd tract. Maybe the larger community would be more open to having closer subway stops.
Queens in general is wildly anti mass transit. Go on just about any street and all parking is filled, quite often with double parking as well. There’s really no escaping that mentality.
You cannot put an elevated subway along the GCP. the RPZ of Runway 4 prevents you from doing so. you cannot get “past” it with anything other than a tunnel or right on grade. Thats why the street lights along that portion of the GCP are only like 10 feet tall.
The idea of “transit advocates” advocating for stopping a transit project, is madness. These people are nuts. About as bad as the “community activists” who supposedly care so much about “affordable housing” that they sue to block any housing from being built.
I must admit to not knowing much about this project. Can anyone confirm if this really be faster than the current bus services to the airport? I’m not too familiar with the 7 train either but it looks like the 7 train makes more stops just getting to Willets point only for travelers to head back west to the airport.
If you’re asking whether service to Manhattan will generally be faster, the answer is yes. But this service isn’t replacing any of the existing bus routes, nor is it primarily intended to serve Manhattan, nor is it exclusively focused around subway service.
A person headed to Manhattan who most values time would likely take the LIRR, not the subway. But, in any case, even the subway would be somewhat faster than the existing bus routes. And the 7 runs both express and local.
One thing I don’t fully understand about this projectsis that people seem to think that not having train access to LGA is fine…but it’s not. It’s one of the busiest airports in the country and one of three incredibly important airports for NYC, the biggest city on the continent. Being realistic, not many people are really taking buses to the airport, and having so many people taking individual cars/ubers to get there isn’t efficient. The question should never be whether or not to build the train, it has to be built. Maybe its design will need to be tweaked, as many on this forums have some solid suggestions, but some form of this project needs to happen.
I’m all for scrapping the Cuomo plan for the original 1990’s Ditmars extension. That corner of Queens is way too underdeveloped considering its potential transit time to midtown Manhattan and will need high capacity mass transit eventually. This way you kill two birds with one stone.
Shoot, I forgot about Mexico City. They have a nice metro. One thing MYC does have though is the most stations, but Beijing has the largest in terms of track mileage, right?
these people are insane.