NEW YORK | 101 W 14th St | 145 FT | 13 FLOORS

I look forward to what ODA has planned for 56th and Lex. They do great work.

I was thinking more about 740 8th, and the more I look at it, it might turn out to be pretty cool. I wouldn’t want to see it on 5th, Madison, Park, or 6th, but on 8th Ave – “Far From The Madding Crowd” – it might be pretty cool after all.

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What is also special is the high quality materials on that curtain wall. The fin-like panels on the window mullions are a very heavy gauge (thick) metal. The paint finish on the metal is a thick baked-on powder coat finish that is similar to a quality auto body paint finish. The glass is also substantial, looks to be triple or double pane: thick and flat.

I think subtle finish details are often not noticed by most casual observers; which is why I am impressed that the developers/architects have not compromised on those subtle features to save costs.

This is a super fine looking job, a real stand out for those who can recognize and appreciate that type of quality architectural design. This is Architecture with a Capital A… :star_struck:

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At first I thought this building would be a little too “high-line” for 6th Ave, but it finished up looking so clean and well-made I can only wish the devs got those 2 little junklets next to it on 6th Ave.

Hopefully this leads to more progress on this stretch of 6th Ave.


I agree with you that the outward appearance of the cladding is probably powder coated, but it (the fins and other elements) is not composed of solid metal plates or heavy gauge metal, it’s just extruded aluminum panels. As for the glass, double paned glass is a standard now, I’m not aware of any construction, even with suburban housing, that uses single pane windows anymore, they can’t be insulated.


I do agree about the aluminium part: I say metal in a more general sense of the word - alum, or iron, or steel, or some composite metalic material. So, yes aluminium seems right. Those fins are most likely a solid “metal” of some sort…

All the other facade panels are sheet metal, that is a given - it is those sold ‘fins’ that make this facade look so substantial.

I am willing to bet those fins that protrude out around the windows are ‘solid’ - whatever the material. I think they are probably solid because they are just too thin (less than 1" ) to be hollow.

I think you are often right; but on this one I will need some evidence… :wink:

I would be interested to know for sure… I think we can actually find out for certain and post on this thread: it will be interesting to know for those who are interested in these types of details. I will check around a bit (but not too, much) and post if I can find any ‘solid’ info - pun intended - on the matter.

met·al | ˈmed(ə)l |
1 a solid material that is typically hard, shiny, malleable, fusible, and ductile, with good electrical and thermal conductivity (e.g., iron, gold, silver, copper, and aluminum, and alloys such as brass and steel): being a metal, aluminum readily conducts heat | vessels made of ceramics or metal.

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They’re actually closer to 2" when compared against a photo with a construction worker in it, and when compared against the window mullions which can be seen through the windows in certain photos. They are essentially like deep mullions, which themselves are always hollow no matter the thickness, and are always about <1/8" thick. There wouldn’t be a need for them to be solid, unless they were like Miesian elements that used actual steel columns and angles, which they are clearly not, and especially when made of aluminum.

It’s not unusual at all for narrow profiles of mullions or louvers and fins to be hollow as they normally are hollow, I’ve never seen any of the previous elements as solid elements because it’s simply a waste of material when speaking of aliminum and other metals like, zinc, bronze, brass, corten, etc.


I see your point; but we are both making only conjecture about those ‘fins’. I believe they are solid metal that is about 1" in thickness. This is a simple question that we can get a definitive answer from someone who knows for sure. It would be nice if the builder or architect could chime in on this quesiton.

I think the best way to find out is to see the manufacturers shop drawings with detailed sections and written specifications. I think it would be a good academic exercise to find out for certain: so I will do a bit of checking around and get back to this thread with whatever I find.

The continued posting here may stir up someone who is a subject matter expert, or working directly on the project: that would be great.

Here is an example of proof positive that a window mullion or louver is made of hollow sheet metal. I am hoping to find some similar evidence showing the needed details. This is from the building in Brooklyn called Alloy Block…

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I understand that perspective, but it’s not really conjecture), because like I said, non hollowed-out metals (rather extrusions) are not used in construction anymore, it’s extremely uneconomical and wasteful, even in the instance of using a low cost material like aluminum. Even materials such as decorative terra cotta elements are not solid. These pieces are normally manufactured into a bent or pressed shapes, not molded or cast but for those facade elements that are extruded like mullions.

If they were solid then it would make precedent for mullions of even thinner cross section to also be solid, but they are not.

The image doesn’t really prove anything, because all unitized curtainwall panels are hollow as they are formed by extrusion.

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More conjecture. I will try to find proof that they are solid - I would like to see if this can be established as a matter-of-fact. This forum format is very good for demonstrating if something is true/false; we can find photos, specs, or subject matter experts; so this is a good opportunity for find and proving a point. I really don’t mind being wrong on this: only enjoying the process. :face_with_monocle:

I try looking around a bit, and get back if I find something. I really think this building is exceptional in every way. I am nearly certain those things are ‘solid’ …

But which of my use of the word solid is conjecture, those are all factual statements.

Do you ‘know’ - as in certain - that they are not “solid”. If no - that is conjecture. If you can show evidence that would be nice: but it is all still ‘conjecture’ at this point.

Quote - “those are all factual statements”… OK, prove it. :stuck_out_tongue:

I am only fishing for some definitive proof at this point. I think we can find it - that is my goal going forward on this thread. We will see - maybe.

That is understandable.

But in general, your conclusion is that they are not hollow because they are thin and are therefore solid, but why. I have provided factual information as to why something being thin does not mean it is solid just as something that is thick does not mean it is solid either.

Why would a 3/4" thick mullion be hollow but not these elements. That’s the main point im getting at, why have you come to the conclusion that they are solid simply because they are (too) thin (to be hollow).

I see that it is possible that I may be wrong about those ‘fins’ being solid 1" thick metal.

To answer your question. They simply do not appear to me that they are made of sheet metal; and therefore I do not think they are hollow inside. That is the only reason I presume they are solid. I am now interested in testing my assumption now that it has been called into question.

This building has such a substantial facade that looks much different to me: I attribute that ‘look’ to the fact that those ‘fins’ or ‘louvers’ are SOLID metal.

I am curious to find out. I am hoping to see some proof; which may be easy to find. We are both making claims about that material that has not be substantiated. The post about the ‘fins’ on the Allow Block building provided photographic evidence of a hollow sheet metal ‘fin’ on the facade; that was easy enough to find. NEW YORK | 101 W 14th St | 145 FT | 13 FLOORS - #87 by infoshare

I hope here on this thread we can do the same and provide proof positive that material is either ‘solid metal’ or ‘hollow’. I think your wrong on this point; but this matter will be easy & enjoyable to settle.

I did some looking: the manufacturers shop drawings would have those details available on line. I will keep looking; and hoping that someone else can chime in provide that information.

Solid metal, or hollow that remains to be determined - I will post if find anything.


I hope to find a shop drawing like this with all the specifications. Or the Architect/builder to post here some information on that facade material.

Well we know that the facade material is aluminum, ODA has said that much, that’s why I can make the assumption that no parts of the facade are solid, because aluminum is never used as a solid material for building applications as it relates to facades and that itself is not conjecture.

I now have confirmation from the architect that they are indeed, hollow aluminum extrusions.

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Here are some good curtain wall details for some other random curtain wall systems. These details show that all the window frame sections are hollow. I do not think this is the case with this particular curtain wall: they ‘look’ like solid metal as best I can discern.

I am posting in the hope someone can provide some conclusive evidence that those ‘fins’ or ‘louvers’ are also hollow on the inside; as opposed to ‘solid’ metal. I pass this building often, that facade looks so substantially different than most others when viewed in person; I think those ‘solid’ metal components is what imparts the unique “hefty” appearance of this facade.

This is in my opinion one of the best looking low rise buildings in Manhattan; the architectural design, the high quality materials, the precision quality construction - all exceptional. I would enjoy seeing a section detail of those protruding fins/louvers on the facade. Let’s see if we can ‘crowd source’ this information if there are others follow this thread - your input would be great… :face_with_monocle:


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@infoshare ?

I spoke with them, it’s not up for debate anymore.

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You really don’t seem to grasp what TKDV has been trying to tell you! The facade is aluminum, therefore it cannot possibly be a solid material, no matter how much you think it “looks” like it is solid. This photo from JC_Heights is a good detail photo into that curtain wall section. Your two examples look just like it - because the systems are similar. Not to mention that this is a panel system, which uses those facade “clips” to hold up hollow pieces. I am also attaching two updates from Field Condition where you can see a bit more of the facade detail.

In this article, ODA mentions the use of an “interlocking curtain wall of glass and aluminum”. Which cannot be done if half the pieces are solid (which again, isn’t a common practice).

And finally, if these were solid metal pieces, it would take a different type of system to attach to the building. This building for example, uses giant pieces of limestone as the facade. This section detail shows how large the attachment system has to be to hold the “solid” pieces. 101 W14th would not have been economically viable had they opted to attach solid metal onto the facade, especially at 13 stories.

via Divisare

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Well said :+1:, I was also trying to find earlier photos of the project that FieldCondition had taken but for some reason couldn’t find earlier sets past a certain date on the website. Thanks for trying to re-explain some things. A point you mentioned that I wasn’t really getting across particularly well is that because these are extruded aluminum panels, all parts of them would be hollow, you wouldn’t have a solid part attached to the rest of the profile and even if it was a later add on (which they are not) that just attached to the rest of the facade it wouldn’t be solid.

I think the moral here is appearance doesn’t determine the make up of something, it’s relationship to everything else does, not everything that is thick and sturdy is solid, and because something appears thin doesnt means it’s too thin to be hollow since extruded aluminum can be around 1/16th of an inch thick in section. So it being wider or thinner than 1" (even though they are slightly wider than that) was not an equivalent to it being solid.

But this matter can be laid to rest, unless the actual drawings of the pieces want to be seen, which for the most part, construction documents are normally I’d say of a confidential/sensitive nature, so I wouldn’t personally ponder about trying to look for them or ask for them. It also involves a matter of disclosure.

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All anybody needs to do is go to a frame shop and take a look at the custom aluminum frames for artwork, and they should get the picture. They have all kinds of profiles and they’ll cut it to length for you but this is essentially the exact same thing.


Ah, I see what you did there. :sweat_smile: But that’s a good point too.

I also want to point out that the fins are in fact 2" wide, that’s not speculation or conjecture or anything of that sort, they are 2" wide.

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