Closure? Perhaps. Depends on whether the original plaintiffs try to go up to the NY Court of Appeals. We’ll know soon. Just a little dose of reality here.
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The BSA is literally the independent board specifically tasked with interpreting the zoning resolution. They should never been overruled by a judge on a zoning issue unless there is some obvious instance of gross malfeasance. A judge cannot tell the city how to interpret its own zoning code; that would mean there is no code, essentially.
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New York! America!
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So it this spiel is finally completely over?
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I believe the legal challenges are over; so all is said and done in that respect. I think we can keep the discussion going as sort of a post-game analysis; which is something I am willing to entertain for the time being.
The Yimby forum generally has a PRO development position; so delving into the shear ineptitude and possible unethical activity surrounding the attempts to block this project from being completed as
planned may well prove to be a worth while endeavor. This is of course, only if there are others here, willing to discuss the story in detail.
I have found plenty of material to work with doing a simple online search query: here is one I found to be interesting.
quote… “The directive to partially demolish the building is appropriate given the willingness of the developer to ignore every sign that their project was inappropriately scaled for the neighborhood and based on a radical and wildly inaccurate interpretation of the Zoning Resolution ,” said Elizabeth Goldstein, president of the Municipal Art Society, one of two groups that brought the suit.
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Here is an example of where we can also have some fun reviewing the details of this case, and the various news reports that have chronicled this project every step of the way. Here is an excerpt form an article I found on a website called ‘Landmark West’ - this statement is either naive, or disengenuous.
EXCERPT: The judges, who are simply tasked with responsibly interpreting the law and properly enforcing it, are not swayed by the economic or political agendas that are guiding city officials.
Call me cynical; but that statement is comical.
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Infoshare: I suspect you are correct that the dispute is over. But in today’s West Side Rag story the plaintiffs are quoted as saying that they have not decided whether to try a further appeal to the NY. Court of Appeals. Since this result was 4-0 it is discretionary with the NYCA as to whether they take it. But we will have to wait until the time to appeal is over before declaring it finished.
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Yes, I recall you did say that in one of the above posts. I am instigating further discussion on the case; and proceeding on the fair assumption that this case is now closed.
I do not want to accidentally (or deliberately) obfuscate the issue by addressing too many distinct aspects of the case. . I think it is best that I try to stick to one particular point on any given post.
One good point was (for example) made above by Crawdad: ‘how can a Judge tell the city zoning official like DOB and BSA how to interpret zoning regulations - that would mean their is essentially no zoning code’.
He made a good point, and one that is worthy of addressing in detail.There are a lot of interesting aspects of this case to review and discuss: given there is adequate time, and interest on the part of the other forum members.
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I have sought leave to appeal to the Court of Appeals only once, and it was long ago. I believe that it is very rarely granted, so even if they move for leave, it’s highly unlikely to be granted.
Do you agree?
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No, Infoshare I don’t fully agree. If an administrative agency construes a statute or a regulation in a way that is outside the authority of the agency or is not a plausible construction of the statute or the regulation courts, routinely modify or void the agency determination. That is the issue in this case. The court concluded that the construction of the land use rule was reasonable and therefore reversed the lower court. But that is not always the preordained result.
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RobertWalpole–Yes, they do not not grant review very often. In that sense they behave like SCOTUS. Neither court has the time to routinely review all cases, especially if the lower court’s decision was unanimous.
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I appreciate the response. However, what you have posted above is completely incomprehensible to me, I simply do not understand what you are saying, or what your point is: I admit that is due to my lack of knowledge regarding legal proceedings and language.
I can only say at this point that I agree with the summation stated in the above article; that summation basically put the onus on Judge Perry. The Judge “should have deferred to the BSA’s rational interpretation”.
I doubt you agree with that summation; but I am not able to argue the point on formal legal grounds.
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Infoshare: The “should have deferred” phrase is actually the same as what I said! The normal rule is NOT to overrule the work of an agency but to defer. Only when the agency is off-base will a court reverse them. So what the court did was to apply a standard rule.
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I can only share my ‘attitude’ regarding the case, what is true/false on the basis of codified law, or objective reality will probably never be a “settled matter”.
My attitude is this: the DOB approved the project - period. The developers may have found some “loophole” or clever trick to get that approval, but THAT was an oversight or failing on the part of the zoning codes, or administrative agencies; so the developer had every right to proceed unmolested.
Holding the developer responsible for the fact that the zoning regulations are so vague, or ambiguous, to be subject to ‘loopholes’ is not developer’s responsibility - the legal objections seem to defy common sense.
I know the crux of the matter is not “common sense” but ‘common law’ - so all I can offer is my attitude on the whole case. This then speaks to what I see as the NIMBY attitude; which seeks to oppose developments on whatever flimsy grounds the can possibly conjure up to block/delay a given project.
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Infoshare: While your reaction to this dispute probably will turn out to be the final result, law is often not a true/false test. Whether a bureaucratic decision once made is inevitably the final result turns out at times to be messy and long winded. And, as I’ve said before in this chain, the “fault” here can be spread around–not just to the bureaucracy but also to the parties in the law suit, and the courts. That the building permit process needs some changes is clear. But for me the sloth of the decision making process was the major problem and everyone was to blame for that.
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I agree; no one party can be clearly identified as being at fault. This has been a good opportunity for us all to openly discuss the project; and there is not much more to explore on this case. I have learned that the zoning rules, and the decision making process in NYC is - as you say - a messy and long winded affair. We will all have to wait and see if there are further legal challenges; my guess is we have heard the last of this legal dispute.
My final opinon on the whole story is somewhat cynical; but probably true.
I believe this whole process was a bit more nefarious than simply ‘messy’ - that ruling to take off the top of the building was a questionable move. In support of my wild speculation; I link this commentary about the NYS Court System.
Excerpt from article- Retired Appellate Division Justice David Saxe, now a partner at the Morrison Cohen law firm, offered a bleak assessment.
“Our state court system in New York is absolutely insane,” he told The Post. “It has enabled political people to control the courts, and they don’t want to give it up — so it’s very hard to get legitimate change that would be beneficial to the public.”
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CLkVqrdhKm6/?igshid=5zogx7sdpa0z
https://www.instagram.com/p/CI35NbKAEmn/?igshid=w63pn09n0my7
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLzvDZSAsPG/?igshid=14nd2lijj1n62
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMBfIqalEHT/?igshid=17qi70oqip0zq
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Pics by me. Taken yesterday.
Midtown Manhattan - 03-06-2021 - 8 by Christopher Estevez, on Flickr
Midtown Manhattan - 03-06-2021 - 6 by Christopher Estevez, on Flickr
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I like those clouds.
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