NEW YORK | Madison Square Garden

Yes, stadiums host (as it relates to sports) football, soccer, and baseball, arena’s are for basketball, hockey, tennis, etc. both can host other entertainment based activities, such as concerts, and other events, but the terms (nor venues) cannot be used interchangeably.

That’s all the structure supports, glass, not thousands of tons of steel and concrete. That’s why I said the infrastructure cannot support an arena and that any such move would distrupt operations to try and install the infrastructure needed to support the structure of an arena.

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I was just thinking of some parasitic architecture projects i’ve seen lately. From a pure logistics standpoint, this seems easier than trying to relocate MSG to some random location somewhere else.

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But that’s the thing, it’s not any easier from a logistic standpoint as you say for the reasons that I’ve pointed out. There are 2 types of parasitic deconstructivism, one in where the building is built harmoniously with the reused building (ROM Toronto), and one where the building does not interact with the reused building (Havenhuis). Havenhuis does not interact with the older building it “intersects” with, in any scenario, MSG would have to use the current location of structure within Javits, or else the convention center would just become a forest of columns, which is definitely not conducive to a convention center environment/planning.

Atleast if built elsewhere, they wouldn’t need to try to plan to interweave with an existing building, which is not any easier than building from a clean slate, it’s actually more difficult.

The proximity to a major transportation hub is whats in question. I think the owners of MSG would much rather try something like this than take MSG far away from Penn.

This is the third location for MSG in history.
From Wiki:

Madison Square is formed by the intersection of 5th Avenue and Broadway at 23rd Street in Manhattan. It was named after James Madison, fourth President of the United States.[7]

Two venues called Madison Square Garden were located just northeast of the square, the original Garden from 1879 to 1890, and the second Garden from 1890 to 1925. The first, leased to P. T. Barnum,[8] was demolished in 1890 because of a leaky roof and dangerous balconies that had collapsed, resulting in deaths. The second was designed by noted architect Stanford White. The new building was built by a syndicate that included J. P. Morgan, Andrew Carnegie, P. T. Barnum,[9] Darius Mills, James Stillman and W. W. Astor. White gave them a Beaux-Arts structure with a Moorish feel, including a minaret-like tower modeled after Giralda, the bell tower of the Cathedral of Seville,[9] soaring 32 stories, the city’s second-tallest building at the time and dominating Madison Square Park. It was 200 feet (61 m) by 485 feet (148 m), and the main hall, which was the largest in the world, measured 200 feet (61 m) by 350 feet (110 m) with permanent seating for 8,000 people and floor space for thousands more. It had a 1,200-seat theatre, a concert hall with a capacity of 1,500, the largest restaurant in the city, and a roof garden cabaret.[8] The building cost $3 million.[8] Madison Square Garden II was unsuccessful like the first Garden,[10] and the New York Life Insurance Company, which held the mortgage on it, decided to tear it down in 1925 to make way for a new headquarters building, which would become the landmark Cass Gilbert-designed New York Life Building.

A third Madison Square Garden opened in a new location, on 8th Avenue between 49th and 50th Streets, from 1925 to 1968. Groundbreaking on the third Madison Square Garden took place on January 9, 1925.[11] Designed by the noted theater architect Thomas W. Lamb, it was built at the cost of $4.75 million in 249 days by boxing promoter Tex Rickard;[8] the arena was dubbed “The House That Tex Built.”[12] The arena was 200 feet (61 m) by 375 feet (114 m), with seating on three levels, and a maximum capacity of 18,496 spectators for boxing.[8]

Demolition commenced in 1968 after the opening of the current Garden,[13] and was completed in early 1969. The site is now the location of One Worldwide Plaza.

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A slight correction: The current MSG that we all despise for ruining Penn is the 4th iteration. Your wiki quote states:

A third Madison Square Garden opened in a new location, on 8th Avenue between 49th and 50th Streets, from 1925 to 1968.

That iteration (no. 3) was demolished when the current MSG (4th) opened for business.

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No no, stache is talking about the location only, which it is the 3rd location MSG has been, but you’re correct that it is the 4th iteration. :+1:

I/II - New York Life Building

III - One Worldwide Plaza

IV - here, lol

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TK. is my wingman. :slightly_smiling_face:

MSG Two




Madison Square Garden 1879 - 1968 — NYC URBANISM

Would it be possible to achieve a new MSG with a very tall office tower with an observation deck?

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Mmm, in what manner? I’m not sure I quite follow. :thinking:

Do you mean have a new arena with a tower as well?

Gershwin theater and Marriott Marquis did it so why not?


MSG taken as of yesterday

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First photo reminds me of Brasilia.

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The MTA, NJ Transit and Amtrak this month raised a new alarm about the impossibility of evacuating the Garden and the station in any major emergency: They demand major changes that could cost MSG’s owners hundreds of millions.

What is this a reference to?

MSG’s operating permit may get a 5-year extension. This is good news as Dolan’s plans for an indefinite extension are likely to be quashed, which is very good for the proper redevelopment of Penn.

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The so-called Greatest City in the World is being held hostage by this guy. The economy, health, and wellbeing of millions of people shouldn’t hinge on some dusty air filter and its owners. The city and state need to get it together and use their immense power to get rid of this parasite, demolish MSG, and build a world-class train stadium. There really should be no alternative.

“You can’t move the Great Pyramids, you can’t move the Statue of Liberty,” Run-DMC’s Darryl McDaniels wrote Friday … "These are icons. Madison Square Garden is no different.” I mean, listen to these absolute lunatics.

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^^

I think “world-class train stadium” could categorically be defined as a Freudian slip.

What do folks think?

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hahaha oh man, do you see what this Dolan guy has done to me?

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Agreed. That entire area needs to be raised to the ground and rebuilt. I’m talking the several blocks surrounding Penn as well as Penn itself.

It’s just awful.

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The only “good” thing is that the city did not fully give into Dolan’s demands for an infinite permit and only gave them 5 years. This gives enough time to hopefully get some of the Gateway Project stuff complete such as the Portal Bridge and some tunnel stuff while also allowing for a proper plan for Penn to be devised that isn’t so hastily put together (MTA’s current proposal, for example) so that once the permit expires and (hopefully) MSG gets booted, a proper station can be built and MSG is forced to relocate. I do agree MSG and its owner is holding this city hostage by denying a grand station that the city deserves.

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