Also, if the left criticizing cheap ugly architecture makes them NIMBY’s then call me a Liberal NIMBY.
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So you don’t like politics in here but yet you decide to add in politics yourself?
And while NYC is a democrat controlled town like you say, the rise in the class and populist rhetoric from the likes of AOC, de Blasio, Sanders, etc. are a relatively recent phenomenon.
The redevelopment of Hudson Yards or at least the idea of it started back in the 90’s, when the city was relatively moderate and the political atmosphere was much different. I’d dare to say that if it was going through the rounds of public debate and approvals today, it would be made to go through the same thing Amazon got. Who knows what would become of this site, assuming anything comes of it.
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This is the most expensive private development in the history of the world. There is nothing cheap here.
If you’ll remember, this all stem from that NY Times piece. His complaint was not so much that the architecture was cheap but the scale. The problem, which he does not seem to understand despite it being his line of work, is that master planned developments can never be human scaled.
That’s why the Battery Park City/Long Island City/Greenpoint/ Williamsburg water front developments or even the many Robert Moses housing projects from mid century, all have the same sterile, characterless, charmless feel to them.
The days of small footprint, organically grown blocks are over. I myself am not a fan of master planning either but that is what we have today. Everything from the footprint, setback, use, height, number of parking spaces for cars, number of trees, curb cuts, etc. are all regulated by zoning.
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FWIW – here’s an example of (dare I say excellent?) master planning. I’ve been there and agree with the review, which is very positive! He’s right to go to the Netherlands to see this done best. HY etc just lack the interest in good design from the top down.
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Here are my two cents on politics here.
All day I’m mentally drained between work and keeping up with the stuff our president and his administration is doing. I come to this site to relax and enjoy the pictures people share. Whenever I see the phrase “leftist” or some other political term, it makes me want to rip my damn eyes out.
I get that politics are intertwined somewhat with building construction. But please realize that some people here use this site as an escape from the crazy world we live in.
It is possible to have lots of political opinions but not let them infiltrate the critique of the architecture. For example, I could go on all day how I truly feel about the kinds of people buying out spaces on 57th Street. But I don’t. Learning restraint isn’t that difficult.
Perhaps we keep all politics to a dedicated thread and not let it leak like crap out of a cheap baby’s diaper?
Thanks.
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Well said sir!!
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Yes, the mall and some off the surrounding buildings look cheap and outdated.
The High Line is cool, the Vessel is cool, 35 HY is cool, the Shed is cool, but the rest lacks style and seems more suburban than urban.
Like I said though, overall I’m a fan of the HY. It used to be an open-air rail yard. So to turn if from that into what it has become is a net positive result.
But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to criticize the parts that fall short. Modern development around the world is terrible and not calling it out will only make developers think mediocrity is ok. It’s not.
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And saying 'small footprint, organically grown blocks are over" just isn’t true. If people like/want it then developers will build it.
You just have to show developers that’s what people want.
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Forget the railyard, could you imagine if Bloomberg and the 2012 Olympics committee had their way and it became the site of a Jets stadium? A publicly funded football stadium in Manhattan? Talk about waste.
Hudson Yards at least is a 21st century city in NYC, and will likely generate huge amounts of money. It has all the problems of 21st century cities, too.
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You obviously are not understanding both me and the idea of large scale master planning and small scale, tradition growth.
Let me illustrate. This is how street and buildings used to develop: Google Maps
Private landowners just built on their small plots. That’s what I meant by organic growth. These are more walkable and are often referred to by people like that NY Times critic as having charm and character.
Now, compare that with these modern, master planned places: Google Maps
These have very little charm and are often attacked for their lack of character and unwalkability.
I don’t disagree with any of that. I am just trying to explain that due to the current trend of having everything regulated down to where you can plant trees and how many parking spaces you must have, there is only so much a developer and architect can do to make a development like Hudson Yards have human scale, like that NY Times critic wants.
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You cannot have small scale here at Hudson Yards. They needed to fit 12 million square feet of office, retail, hotel, residential, a school and performance space along with the MANDATORY open space in what is essentially 6 Manhattan blocks.
You cannot possibly build small scale here. I hate to sound condescending but you clearly don’t know much about this topic.
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My complaint about Dubai is that everything is sterile: the office parks, the shopping centers, the residential neighborhoods, the marina district. Everything.
Hudson Yards is fairly sterile, for now. But Phase II was always supposed to be the more intimate residential area, and so I think we have to remember that this is only halfway complete while we wait for the rest.
We know that The Shed will bring culture and performance, and that the HL will feature installation pieces. And I think as more people pour in there will be more to engage with at the street level over time (buskers, street artists, vendors, etc.)
I agree that a new development of this scale will always seem sterile. You can’t create a culture out of thin air. The grandeur and intimacy of other parts of NYC have been created over centuries: even Rockefeller thrives off its neighbors.
Unlike Dubai, this city is cultured and vibrant, and that will inevitably spill into HY. It’ll just take time. And it’ll largely depend on whether or not New Yorkers choose to engage, or whether or not they write it off as a tourist trap and let the area succumb to M&M stores and mega Red Lobsters. I hope not.
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Me walking into this thread, hoping to see some pictures of HY and we’ve gone off the rails into politics…
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Your comment was great and interesting GBW until that last line. Do we really have to do put downs on forums like these? We can learn from each other in a kindly way. Thanks.
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Corporations should never be expected to act in the best interests of the public as they have no fiduciary responsibilities to the public. If they didn’t squeeze every possible rent-able/sell-able square foot out of the land their officers would be held to account by their shareholders.
That doesn’t mean corporations can’t be used to improve something/somewhere while they make a buck.
In the case of Hudson Yards its not realistic to expect low rise buildings on the site. The only reason the original WTC complex had low rise buildings was because the twins’ floors were basically identical - they had no ‘over-sized’ floors for certain tenants like trading rooms etc. That’s not the case here.
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?? My last comment about being kindly was not referring to you. Sorry if you thought it was.
Chused
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You say regulation is the problem, I say greedy corporations who cut costs and are only interested in maximizing profit are the problem.
In the end we are probably both partly right.
I’m still going to criticize though because I don’t want anymore crappy development. NY has had decades of crappy development and only recently have developers gotten the hint that people want walkable, human scale development with character.
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This is what people like. It just is.
Why not give people what they actually want? If there is a demand (which there is) there is a market. Cities all over the world are building “districts” and i’m not sure what you don’t get about that.
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You are confusing small scale with quality architecture. They are not mutually inclusive.
For example, there can be small scale but junk architecture (plenty of those in the outerboroughs in the form of Fedders brick boxes). Likewise, there are examples of large scale AND high quality architecture (Tower Verre, 111, etc.)
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You also keep on repeating, cheap bad architecture.
I repeat, once again, this is the most expensive private development project in the history of the world. What is exactly cheap here? You still have not answered this.
We’ve already established that small scale is not possible here, which is your other gripe. Just because you don’t like the architecture does not make it bad. For every one of you who don’t like the towers here, there are probably 50 other people who do.
Every city in this country would absolutely kill to have a Hudson Yards and Vessel in their city. Philly fans were falling over themselves over Schuylkill Yards but that is not even close to Hudson Yards in scope, grandness, amenities, cost, prominence and I dare say, architecture.
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