The next road widening scheme is dropping by the end of the year. This time, the Outerbridge Crossing is next. Spending 8.3 million dollars, the Port Authority is running a study ti see if they can widen the bridge to “ease traffic”.
1 Like
Or, and this is crazy, NY and NJ could grow some balls and build a subway line to Staten Island already and it can finally join the rest of civilization.
Not that it matters for this bridge at the southern end but you get the point
3 Likes
A huge construction project for Staten Island?
That’s great news for the “Five Families.”
3 Likes
Opponents to the disasterous Turnpike Bay Extension Widening Scheme want the NJ Turnpike to consider current traffic levels and conditions in the widening study, especially due to congestion pricing being in effect. It’s refreshing to see critics are actively opposed to this boondoggle. Replacing the bridge is fine and necessary but more lanes to it is not the answer.
5 Likes
5 Likes
NJ Transit is rolling out a contactless OMNY card clone of its own for light rail and select bus services.
5 Likes
It seems like you still need to get a dedicated card though and load it with money. That kinda defeats the contactless payment convenience.
NJ Transit already has a mobile app for contactless tickets and doesn’t require a physical card. I think this is so for people who use mostly cash to buy tickets and can have a reloadable card that they can put cash on or usable as a more durable monthly pass type thing since existing ones are paper. Another thing is that they might use this as a pilot to potentially eliminate paper tickets.
There could be other benefits such as more seamless bus/light rail (does not work on regular trains yet) transfers, contactless senior/disabled fares, easier recovery of lost or stolen monthly passes, etc.
2 Likes
Not really, DC and Chicago have similar systems and they don’t really create that much of an inconvenience, although obviously not as seamless as OMNY.
Finally an update for the Raritan River bridge replacement along the North Jersey Coastline. This has been stalled since at least 2023 while NJ searched for someone to build the actual lift portion of the bridge.
Allegedly work started on the new spans this month in April so I suppose they will be built elsewhere and floated down to the bridge site.
4 Likes
The useless and wasteful Turnpike widening scheme is expected to start this year and property will be aquired to facilitate it.
1 Like
So frustrating to see this move forward while congestion pricing has completely negated the need for it.
8 Likes
Again, most of the traffic on the turnpike extension, where this upgrade is sorely needed, is NOT heading to the Holland Tunnel! Literally irrelevant what’s going on with Congestion Pricing — which is also still be litigated by the federal government, doubly invalidating your “argument”.
Most of the drivers who use the highway are not headed to New York City via the Holland Tunnel, the Turnpike Authority notes. Data shows that nearly 80 percent of the eastbound Extension traffic is bound for Jersey City (56%), Bayonne (17%) and other parts of Hudson County (6%).
Do you simply not believe those numbers, or can someone explain what should be done with the existing roadway & bridges instead of this project? Upgrade everything but keep it 2 lanes per direction?
No one’s arguing against needed maintenance on roads and bridges. The bridge should absolutely be replaced, and crumbling roads should be repaired.
What’s infuriating is the continued use of 50s era highway widening projects through urban centers to accommodate suburban drivers as if induced demand isn’t a phenomenon that’s been proven a million times over.
8 Likes
Suburban drivers? These are 80% drivers within Hudson County! I guess I should ask again, do you simply dispute the numbers linked above?
Also, you truly think 3 lanes in each direction is out of scope for a roadway in one of the most densely populated areas of the country? Serving some of the nation’s busiest cargo ports & airports? I just don’t see how anyone can argue 3 lanes is outrageous here. We’re not talking an 16-lane monstrosity from Houston or LA.
It’s a no-brainer that if you’re replacing the entire span & bridges anyway — which you agree is needed — make it 3 lanes each direction while you’re at it. I mean, is there anywhere in the country you think 3 lanes is justified if not here?
Instead of blowing money on this boondoggle, just save some cash, replace the bridge and perhaps prevent NJ Transit from having to raise their fares. NJ Transit’s service keeps getting shittier and shittier and more expensive and the useless NJ government would rather fast-track a highway widening project that nobody wants despite public outcry that NJ Transit needs repairs and enhanced service.
It is not a no-brainer. The area this road serves has decent transit options, such as the light rail or bus service, which could be expanded to better serve the area. Many areas are walkable, and expanding people-first options instead of catering to drivers is the smarter choice. A highway expansion makes more sense in places in the Midwest, for example, where options for transit are much sparser. Not one of the most transit-dense regions in the state.
To get an idea of how effective a third lane is, at one point, they were letting traffic drive on the shoulder that they eventually discontinued in 2019 due to construction ending on the Pulaski Skyway. I know someone who used to commute over the route every morning during rush hour and that theoretical third lane did nothing to fix traffic. Traffic would reach a standstill even with that “third lane.” Why would a permanent third lane be any different? It’s called induced demand, and adding another lane means more people will use it, and we’ll be back to square one.
Another problem is that the widened road will narrow down to the soon-to-be road-dieted Holland Tunnel approach anyway. Even if most drivers are not going to NYC, what good is creating an extra bottleneck that’s going to end up at a road that is being narrowed to expand pedestrian infrastructure in the neighbourhood? We need a governor who’ll finally step up and reject this '50s mentality and expand NJ Transit service instead. We should be displacing the drivers who don’t want to be forced to drive by offering more options to get around, and there won’t be a need to widen the road.
Also, Jersey City and Hoboken are actively protesting the scheme. They don’t want it, so why should they have to be forced to accept it?
I also recommend reading the Congestion Pricing thread because the federal government just bungled their litigation big time. Regardless of their clumsiness, the arguments for congestion pricing are much stronger than what the feds could conceive. The program is going nowhere, and the cameras are going to stay on. They’re going to have a tough time in court, and they know it.
Also, the Turnpike admitted that regardless of who is driving where, it’s still going to add 32% more traffic than what is present today. Your entire argument is invalid because the Turnpike themselves admit it’s not going to “reduce” traffic. This has been proven time and time again that widening roads makes more traffic and does not reduce it.
10 Likes
Obviously, yes. We should renovate the highway, but definitely not expand. Expanding an urban highway in the most transit oriented geography in the U.S. is complete madness.
5 Likes
Trust me I hope the Feds fail & am a huge support of congestion pricing. I’m also all for funneling huge new investments into NJTransit, HBLR expansion, PATH expansion, Amtrak, etc. That is all a separate funding discussion. Keeping the NYC-Scranton Amtrak expansion on track would help enormously, again totally separate funding. I’ve driven this roadway for years, including when they let you drive on the shoulder. It is crumbling & functionally obsolete, and the whole thing needs to be replaced. That is not in dispute. We’re not “just” fixing the bridge, the whole stretch. Apparently the only argument is whether 3 lanes is “too much” for this central artery.
Induced demand as I understand is supposed to take time to appear as a result of changing driving patterns. I doubt it would take ANY time to fill a widened roadway here (as you mentioned!) because it’s just “demand” plain and simple — the demand is already there in a metro area of 21 million people. PATH, NJTransit & Light Rail can’t get everyone to their destinations unfortunately. I would love a country where this isn’t true but that will take decades.
I don’t understand the point about the projected traffic increase. It’s the state analyzing growth in the regional economy along this critical roadway. They know capacity will increase & a 2-lane road can’t handle it. That’s the whole reason for the upgrade, because large industrial areas around this highway are only going to grow further with the increased cargo coming in by air & sea in the immediate vicinity, e-commerce, etc. serving a booming residential population also in the immediate vicinity.
The only roadway with less capacity than 2 lanes in each direction would be a country road with 1 lane in each direction. The idea that this particular stretch of highway should be limited to 2 lanes to prevent “induced demand” is just laughable to me. Also, NJ has its own capacity reasons for the widening, so respect to NY but again the Holland Tunnel is irrelevant.
It could be 20 lines each way, it would still be filled to capacity.
4 Likes