# NYC Underground **URL:** \ **Category:** New York\ **Created:** [November 5, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673 "2021-11-05T22:09:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![a\_arch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@a\_arch](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/a_arch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/21 "2022-05-31T18:47:29Z")
![136-Copy](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/yimby/original/3X/7/3/7364bdff027d4af7d64e06a0bfc899e2bc3e9b92.jpeg) [New Renderings Revealed for 1,200-Foot PENN15 Supertall in Midtown, Manhattan - New York YIMBY](https://newyorkyimby.com/2022/03/new-renderings-revealed-for-1200-foot-penn15-supertall-in-midtown-manhattan.html) ---
**Author:** ![mcart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/mcart/32/84718_2.png) [@mcart](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/mcart)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/22 "2023-02-16T01:40:13Z")
> **[Tours of NYC's old City Hall subway station return this spring | 6sqft](https://www.6sqft.com/tours-of-nycs-old-city-hall-subway-station-return-this-spring/)** > > Tickets will go on sale this March and are only available to members of the museum. ---
**Author:** ![ALC11](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/alc11/32/81254_2.png) [@ALC11](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/ALC11)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 2:13am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/23 "2023-02-16T02:13:05Z")
Hopefully, they give the station a bit of TLC before reopening it for tours. I’ve stayed on the 6 train and looped around a few times recently and it’s looking quite grim. They replaced the old incandescent lightbulbs with these harsh white bulbs and half of them are already blown out and the station’s quite dark and dirty. ---
**Author:** ![Alemel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/alemel/32/91966_2.png) [@Alemel](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/Alemel)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/24 "2023-03-11T23:11:31Z")
> ![Screenshot 2023-03-11 at 6.09.53 PM](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/yimby/original/3X/a/f/af768c19cf554d6fd1c5a466c4a2c1bc35187728.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![ALC11](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/alc11/32/81254_2.png) [@ALC11](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/ALC11)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/25 "2023-03-11T23:27:02Z")
An unfortunate consequence of the wider doors is those god-awful small windows. ‘Plug-style’ doors like those on the air train would have alleviated that issue. ---
**Author:** ![TKDV](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/tkdv/32/83069_2.png) [@TKDV](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/TKDV)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/26 "2023-03-11T23:31:42Z")
Having wider door is a huge plus but that’s a good point, I wonder why they didn’t just make the windows on the doors bigger. ---
**Author:** ![ALC11](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/alc11/32/81254_2.png) [@ALC11](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/ALC11)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/27 "2023-03-11T23:41:54Z")
A possible theory is that its less unique parts to have to procure if they get messed up. They seem to be the same size as the windows on existing equipment so interchangeability was likely considered. ---
**Author:** ![Alemel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/alemel/32/91966_2.png) [@Alemel](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/Alemel)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 5:29am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/28 "2023-03-14T05:29:27Z")
A great gallery with pics of the new cars: [[Album] MTA Unveils New R211 Subway Cars ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/yimby/original/3X/d/2/d2ee873199d3c53ee316f0bebd836564dc871004.jpeg "MTA Unveils New R211 Subway Cars") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/sets/72177720305755334/) ---
**Author:** ![SMCYB](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/smcyb/32/71640_2.png) [@SMCYB](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/SMCYB)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/29 "2023-03-14T14:32:39Z")
My only complaint is that the walls of these cars lean in. That makes it hard for a tall person to sit against the wall (the wall has the same effect as car seat whiplash protectors, aka “headrests”… making your head lean forward). It also makes it uncomfortable to stand by the wall for similar reasons. And it makes the volume of the car unnecessarily smaller. Otherwise new subway cars are always welcomed. ---
**Author:** ![chused](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@chused](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/chused)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/30 "2023-03-14T15:13:51Z")
Good to see that travel between cars is finally being made easy and simple. Should help spread crowds better. ---
**Author:** ![infoshare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/infoshare/32/18825_2.png) [@infoshare](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/infoshare)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/31 "2023-03-14T19:34:23Z")
I got a real chuckle from this post; I thought you were kidding - then realized your not… I am reminded of this meme… 😄 ![download](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/yimby/original/3X/b/7/b72a6af29a83150983874ed02dcd20484fd09030.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![ALC11](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/alc11/32/81254_2.png) [@ALC11](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/ALC11)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/32 "2023-03-14T20:07:04Z")
> [@SMCYB](#): > > My only complaint is that the walls of these cars lean in. All the current B-division (Lettered routes) fleet, including older cars such as the R46 equipment I’ve ridden on, have slanted walls. These cars were introduced **in the early 1970s**. This is nothing new. You can see it for yourself in the photo I took of the interior. ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/yimby/original/3X/4/4/440c97859fd6f47b0b09bd731a561045822c8895.jpeg) The R211’s also share the same profile/shape as the current “new technology” trains such as the R143, R160 and R179. My only complaint is the reduced window size that was a result of wider doors despite full-size windows being shown on the mockup. ---
**Author:** ![streetscaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@streetscaper](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/streetscaper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/33 "2023-03-15T01:22:51Z")
I rode in one of the new trains today and sat down… didn’t notice any slant in my posture at all lol. Felt the same like sitting down in the old A trains. ---
**Author:** ![SMCYB](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/smcyb/32/71640_2.png) [@SMCYB](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/SMCYB)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 1:21pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/34 "2023-03-15T13:21:11Z")
Whatever. I used to ride the 1 & 9 trains on the upper west side. The walls were vertical. I could sit and not need to lean my head slightly forward. If you’re not tall, you don’t understand. I’m tall. It gets uncomfortable after a while. As I said, it was my only complaint, and otherwise new subway cars are always welcome. (Maybe new cars lean in because a tall person has never pointed this out. Maybe constructive criticism is a good thing which can help lead to improvements if people are willing to listen.) Here’s a photo of a 7 train with vertical walls to help you understand what I’m talking about. ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/yimby/original/3X/9/b/9bc68dc02e2f183ac7594abc8456c033e023745b.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![ALC11](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/alc11/32/81254_2.png) [@ALC11](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/ALC11)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/35 "2023-03-15T16:45:25Z")
Those are “A-division” trains (numbered routes) and they are physically narrower _and_ shorter than the new R211 trains because the tunnels are smaller and thats the way it was since the subway opened in 1904. The angled sides are likely to maximize the interior space without having to worry about hitting the walls of the tunnel or a simply a styling choice that all the new trains follow to be uniform. ---
**Author:** ![SMCYB](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/smcyb/32/71640_2.png) [@SMCYB](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/SMCYB)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/36 "2023-03-15T17:29:54Z")
Thanks for that info. It’s nice when people actually think before replying and then offer something helpful to the conversation. Do you know why the wider trains don’t have vertical walls? Are the tunnels narrower at the top? Speaking for the tall people (who hit our heads in basements, tree branches over sidewalks, car door openings, have shower water spray us in the chest instead of the tops of our heads, etc.) I’d rather have 3 or 4 inches of less horizontal space inside than have walls that slant. They also make it less comfortable to lean against the wall when you stand to give a pregnant woman your seat, which in turn forces you to stand more toward the middle, which negates the space gained by having the slanted wall. Again, for anybody who wants to jump all over my comment, this is constructive criticism which is intended to maybe help someone think about such an issue in the future. I say it with all good intentions. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![streetscaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@streetscaper](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/streetscaper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/37 "2023-03-15T20:54:01Z")
Well for someone who rides the A everyday it seemed like oddly specific, kind of baseless complaint… it’s not that serious though, we’re just having a chuckle. How tall are you? I’m 6’ and never had a problem… but I guess someone who’s over 6’5" might, dunno. I think I know the uncomfortable slant you’re talking about in the old cars _if you lean against the car doors_ (which you’re not supposed to do anyway). Otherwise there are no train walls to lean against, there are only seats abutting the wall or doors to lean on. In any case if you don’t lean directly on the doors, and stand just normally in front of the doors or obviously anywhere in the rest of the train car lol, it shouldn’t be a problem. Also I can’t understand how anyone sitting down would have a problem (which was in your original comment). ---
**Author:** ![SMCYB](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/smcyb/32/71640_2.png) [@SMCYB](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/SMCYB)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/38 "2023-03-15T22:09:52Z")
Yes, it is specific, but not baseless. (Why do people feel the need to attempt to invalidate someone else’s point?) So it’s a very specific place to lean, but it’s one that I have done many times. As you said, you’re not supposed to lean against the doors lest they open and you fall onto the tracks. But if you lean against the corner where the railing meets the doors, it’s much safer, and it also gives you a railing to hook your arm around with the curved top of that top almost-horizontal “musical staff” railing under your armpit (as seen in this photo). I’m 6’2". I’m glad it doesn’t bother you. And again, I’m making a very small point that has clearly created a point of conversation that people have taken part in. So please continue the conversation, state your opinion, make a counterpoint, but please stop trying to say that my point is invalid because you may not agree or may have never considered it before. This is supposed to be a community where we welcome each other’s observations and learn from each other, not try to put each other down. Jeeze. [![Imgur](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/yimby/original/3X/8/7/870ca77121bbc2c204818d09fadd0aaaaabe44c3.jpeg "R211T Ride") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/52667360934/in/album-72177720305755334/) ---
**Author:** ![ALC11](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.newyorkyimby.com/alc11/32/81254_2.png) [@ALC11](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/ALC11)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/39 "2023-03-15T22:50:03Z")
Old equipment such as the now-retired R32 had straight walls. It likely might be a styling choice made by the manufacturer. I couldn’t find much about squeezing in as much interior space, it is likely a design choice made by the manufacturer of the trains. The last 3 “B” division train models (R143, R160, R172) all followed pretty much the same design with minor tweaks. It is very likely to be an aesthetic reason for the angled sides. As for tunnels, not all subway tunnels have a square profile. For example, look at York Street on the F train. ---
**Author:** ![GSPLover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@GSPLover](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/GSPLover)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673/40 "2023-03-15T23:09:19Z")
I sure wish they had these cars when I lived in NYC, nice not having to fight with the doors to get from car to car. [Previous page](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/nyc-underground/20673.md?page=3)