# NEW YORK | 80 South St | 1,436 FT | 113 FLOORS
**URL:** https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49
**Category:** Proposed
**Created:** [June 11, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49 "2014-06-11T02:47:53Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@arbre\_vert](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/arbre_vert)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/143 "2018-11-10T16:18:04Z")
Better not building at all than starting and not finishing like this building in Bangkok during the Asian financial crisis…
> **[Inside Bangkok's 'ghost' towers, still abandoned 20 years on](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4815540/Inside-Bangkok-s-ghost-towers-abandoned-20-years-on.html)**
>
> On the surface, Bangkok boasts a shimmering shoal of snazzy skyscrapers. But take a closer look and there is a sprawl of abandonment lurking in the Thai capital.
---
### Author:  [@tjr101](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/tjr101)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/144 "2018-11-10T18:14:19Z")
This site deserves a supertall, Personally I would prefer a massive office building rivaling those at the WTC site but I’d settle for any supertall right now. Downtown needs more supertalls.
---
### Author:  [@IhateUSsteel](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/IhateUSsteel)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/145 "2018-11-10T18:23:21Z")
Agreed. Odd to think there have only been 4 downtown, and two of them are replacements for another.
45 Broad is a saving grace but we need this too.
---
### Author:  [@GentriVacation](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/GentriVacation)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/146 "2018-11-12T13:31:21Z")
Oh I completely agree. I don’t suggest anyone build without money or tenants lined up. Those ghost cities are prime examples of money down the drain. I just think it’s unfortunate that this current opportunity for 80 south seems to be a no go
---
### Author:  [@Anakinra](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/Anakinra)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/147 "2018-11-18T00:05:51Z")
China Oceanwide’s problems appear to be quite serious. The company has booked $11.4 billion of development costs as a “current asset,” an amount that represents 88.5% of its total inventory balance. In other words, 88.5% of its real estate-related inventory is comprised of unfinished or not-even-started buildings. This is especially concerning given that 99.8% of the company’s inventory is real estate-related. At the same time, Chairman Lu Zhiqiang has used his company’s money to purchase more than $120 million in California real estate in some sort of play to shift assets overseas before the bottom falls out. I could go on but don’t want to bore people. I hope someone comes along and grabs this site away from them. If One Seaport is any guide, that area with the right building should not have a problem selling out in short order.
---
### Author:  [@JC\_Heights](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/JC_Heights)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/148 "2018-11-18T00:11:38Z")
Anyone know if they are still progressing at the oceanwide center in SF?
---
### Author:  [@YIMHudson](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/YIMHudson)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/149 "2018-11-18T00:30:02Z")
they are, though progress is slow. They are not out of the ground yet. They did bring in a tower crane, so it stands to reason it will progress.
---
### Author:  [@Anakinra](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/Anakinra)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/150 "2018-11-18T23:39:30Z")
The company purchased the site of the San Francisco tower for $300 million in 2016 from a private equity firm that paid $113 million for it only two years prior. This development is supposed to be the most expensive construction project in San Francisco with an estimated cost of $1.6 billion. Oceanwide began construction towards the end of 2016 but a Curbed article from early 2018 called the project “little more than a dream, a smile, and a pile of construction equipment.”
---
### Author:  [@josh85](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/josh85)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2018, 11:50pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/151 "2018-11-18T23:50:24Z")
I don’t see how they could secure construction loans for the project, given their current situation??
---
### Author:  [@Anakinra](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/Anakinra)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/152 "2018-11-19T01:02:21Z")
There are apparently several serious accounting red flags in their books and the conglomerate has a very opaque structure. While it had previously enjoyed seemingly unlimited access to credit for reasons I cannot explain, the good times appear to be over. The S&P has a CCC+ rating on the conglomerate’s principal operating entity and recently referred to its capital structure as unsustainable.
---
### Author:  [@josh85](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/josh85)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/153 "2018-11-26T23:57:25Z")
Hard to figure out what they were thinking.
---
### Author:  [@YIMHudson](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/YIMHudson)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/154 "2018-11-27T00:02:48Z")
🤔
> **[1,436-Foot Tall 80 South Street Becomes Largest Likely Casualty Of...](https://newyorkyimby.com/2018/11/1436-foot-tall-80-south-street-becomes-largest-likely-casualty-of-chinese-owned-development-bust.html)**
>
> YIMBY has an update on China Oceanwide's plan for 80 South Street, a 1,436-foot tall supertall, which has likely bitten the dust in Lower Manhattan
---
### Author:  [@YIMHudson](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/YIMHudson)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/155 "2018-12-06T19:44:49Z")
I hope Oceanwide doesn’t retain this property. I want to see something materialize before another recession sets in. It would suck if this project gets shelved through another one, and it seems like Oceanwide might be content with doing exactly that.
> **[Chinese Real Estate Investors | Anbang | Foreign Investment](https://therealdeal.com/2018/12/06/chinese-investors-sold-1b-in-us-real-estate-in-q3/)**
>
> Chinese investors keep retreating from the U.S. real estate market.
---
### Author:  [@YIMHudson](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/YIMHudson)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/156 "2019-01-28T17:58:46Z")
Oceanwide is recapitalizing. I hope they sell the assemblage.
> **[Construction halts on $1-billion mixed-use complex in downtown L.A.](https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-oceanwide-plaza-stalled-20190125-story.html)**
>
> Construction on Oceanwide Plaza, one of the biggest real estate development projects in downtown Los Angeles, has stalled in what may be a shortfall in financing from the project’s Chinese owner.
update:
aaaaaand there it is.
> **[China Oceanwide Holdings Quietly Marketing 80 South Street for $300M](https://commercialobserver.com/2019/02/china-oceanwide-holdings-for-sale-80-south-street/)**
>
> China Oceanwide Holdings has put 80 South Street on the market just shy of three years since acquiring the Financial District property.
> Cushman & Wakefield’s Adam Spies has been tapped to market the site. He didn’t respond to requests for comment.
>
> Sources said that only five firms have been approached to bid on the property. Those five firms couldn’t be confirmed by press time.
---
### Author:  [@chris08876](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/chris08876)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2019, 1:10pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/157 "2019-04-10T13:10:56Z")
[# Exclusive Reveal For Lower Manhattan’s Tallest Proposed Supertall, At 80 South Street](https://newyorkyimby.com/2019/04/exclusive-reveal-for-lower-manhattans-tallest-proposed-supertall-at-80-south-street.html)
> Among New York City supertalls expected to rise as part of the current development boom, [80 South Street](https://newyorkyimby.com/category/80-south-street) has been the only major project of prominence to retain near-complete secrecy when it comes to architectural visualizations. Today, YIMBY has the exclusive reveal for the plan tentatively in the works for the site, for developer China Oceanwide Holdings, which would result in the tallest building by roof height in all of Lower Manhattan, likely approaching 1,500 feet above street level.
>
> Exact details and specifications for the site, including its architect, have not been revealed. However, the company that created the renderings, [ATCHAIN](https://www.atchain.com/), has previously worked with a litany of New York architects on visualizations, including Kohn Pedersen Fox, which YIMBY suspects is the firm behind these plans.
>
> The renderings show two similar but slightly different design iterations for 80 South Street. Both feature a strikingly slender supertall that would add the most prominent punctuation mark yet to Lower Manhattan’s skyline, and while the parapet of the project would place its height substantially below that of One World Trade Center’s spire, the overall roof height looks to be about 1,500 feet above street level, which is a large notch above One WTC’s 1,368-foot rooftop.
>
> Unfortunately, the outlook for 80 South Street has become increasingly bleak following a wave of busts affecting Chinese-backed developments in Manhattan, which occurred due to capital outflow restrictions enacted by the Communist Party of China. [YIMBY recently featured a detailed analysis of 80 South Street’s history and its possible future](https://newyorkyimby.com/2018/11/1436-foot-tall-80-south-street-becomes-largest-likely-casualty-of-chinese-owned-development-bust.html), and while China Oceanwide’s plans have finally been revealed, the company’s financial problems mean that these renderings are unlikely to be realized unless the company that next acquires the assemblage is interested in keeping the current design configuration.
>
> The renderings further illustrate how 80 South Street will eventually completely obstruct the northern side of One Seaport, which has also [been in the news recently](https://commercialobserver.com/2019/04/contractor-sues-fortis-over-unsafe-leaning-tower-condo-near-seaport/) thanks to allegations that the structure is leaning three inches to its north and that the tilt is increasing amidst construction delays that have been worsening since late 2018.
>
> The total scope for 80 South Street is expected to encompass an eventual 1,067,350 square feet of development, with about half of that being residential. The remainder would be commercial, likely including a substantial hotel component. While the ULURP documents suggest a height of 1,436 feet, YIMBY’s estimate of 1,500 feet for the released renderings may in fact be too low if the floor count actually matches the approximately 120 stories visible in the images.
>
> No completion date for the site has been announced, and with China Oceanwide apparently facing financial difficulties, it seems more likely than not that this site may again switch hands to a new developer. This would be nothing new for 80 South Street, which was first imagined as Santiago Calatrava’s foray into the New York residential market before [YIMBY revealed an update courtesy of Morali Architecture](https://newyorkyimby.com/2013/02/interview-with-the-architect-80-south-streets-anthony-morali.html), prior to the site’s sale to Howard Hughes, when a design by SHoP Architects was created but [only ever barely-glimpsed](https://newyorkyimby.com/2016/06/first-glimpse-of-shops-80-south-street-set-to-soar-over-1400-feet.html) before the acquisition by China Oceanwide.
---
### Author:  [@TK2000](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/TK2000)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/158 "2019-04-10T13:23:19Z")
YES! Jesus christ I hope this gets built. Though some things on the designs look too familiar, the first one looks like it has the same crown shape as 45 broad and the 2nd one copies The Spiral’s spiral effect. I still like the designs though
---
### Author:  [@HerrDavid](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/HerrDavid)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/159 "2019-04-10T13:48:15Z")
Thought the same thing about the designs, TK. The first design, with its cut-outs and sloped top, also reminded me of Libeskind’s concept for 1 Mad.
---
### Author:  [@YIMHudson](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/YIMHudson)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/160 "2019-04-10T14:23:29Z")
one seaport is definitely stunted in these renderings 😃 Is it me, or does the second one look significantly shorter than the first?
---
### Author:  [@SideStreet](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/SideStreet)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/161 "2019-04-10T15:40:30Z")
1M sf development is about the same amount as CPT and at a similar height to CPT.
As the render has a crown, I would be very surprised if this had more than 100 actual floors. CPT has something like 95-98 and this won’t be quite as tall.
This is still all speculation anyway. Demo hasn’t started, no financing, developer likely to sell.
Not to mention that the very narrow building across the street has an questionable foundation and is leaning in the direction of this development.
I wouldn’t want to buy this site. Frankly the Fortis Maiden Lane ultra-thin block should have been merged with the 80 SS block anyway or turned into a park and the development rights transferred or something.
---
### Author:  [@YIMBY](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/u/YIMBY)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49/162 "2019-04-10T16:10:19Z")
100% agreed on all counts except a count of the floors in rendering #1 does indeed show 120+ floors!
[Previous page](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49.md?page=7)
[Next page](https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/new-york-80-south-st-1-436-ft-113-floors/49.md?page=9)